Members of Parliament have a duty to interrogate the Executive.

Members of Parliament have a duty to interrogate the Executive. Mr Speaker to
give directions on the Statement of the Status of the Revenue Account at the
Treasury.

The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of Finance finally made it
back to Parliament with an apology. But there is still no answer to the revenue
discrepancies. Treasury, would rather, the question is dealt with by the Public
Accounts Committee. Mr Speaker, on Wednesday 18th May 2011 made a further ruling
on the Revenue issue declaring that he will give directions on Thursday, 26th
May 2011 at 2.30pm on how Parliament will proceed on this matter. The
Ministerial Statement was deferred.

Kenyans have read the Controller & Auditor Generals reports for the Financial
Years 2007/8 & 2008/9, the Estimates of revenue 2009,2010,2011 and the PAC
report for the year 2007-8.

1.    the Controller & Auditor General only certified Three (3) & one (1) revenue
accounts for 2007/8 & 2008/9 respectively as passing his audit test. The total
amount of his audit queries for the two years amount to Kshs 714 Billion.
Kenyans want to know why treasury is failing Audit tests and why Parliament is
not asking questions.

2.    Kenyans also know that the actual revenue receipts as captured by the
Controller and Auditor General in the exchequer account differ significantly
with the actual revenue receipts presented to Parliament in the estimates of
Revenue. Kenyans want to know why treasury maintains different sets of revenue
accounts and why Parliament is being misled?

3.    Finally, the estimates of Revenue as tabled in parliament which reflect the
final revised estimates of revenue differ significantly from the final revised
estimates of revenue as captured by the Controller and Auditor General in his
reports. Has Parliament been misled into approving forged documents?

Simply put, Our MP’s do not know how much revenue they authorized for
taxation. Our MP’s do not Know the Actual Revenue the Government collected.
The documents presented to Parliament appear to be forgeries. And finally Our
MP’s do not know that the treasury failed all but one revenue audit test.
Members of Parliament have a right to interrogate the Executive. Accountability
for Tax Money is guaranteed by our Constitution. Kenyans want a clear
explanation through, Parliament from the Treasury. The Speaker  will rule on
Thursday.  See below the extract from the official HANSARD.


NATIONAL ASSEMBLY OFFICIAL REPORT
Wednesday, 18th May, 2011
The House met at 2.30 p.m.
[Mr. Speaker in the Chair] 

Page 23 Wednesday, 18th May, 2011


The Assistant Minister, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of
Finance (Dr. Oburu): Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I would like to apologize for
failing to be in the House on Tuesday 10th May, 2011 when the House was
expecting a Ministerial Statement to be delivered. Kindly, accept my apology and
that of my Minister.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to make a Statement following---

Mr. Speaker: Very well! You may resume your seat for a minute!

(Dr. Oburu resumed his seat)

Hon. Members, I have heard the explanation tendered by Dr. Oburu on behalf of
the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance and, further, he has made
presentations to me prior to this sitting and I am satisfied that they have put
in an explanation as to why they were not available to deliver the Statement nor
in the House to participate in Parliamentary business. I, therefore, lift the
sanctions imposed against the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance as
well as his colleagues in the Ministry.
You may proceed!

STATUS OF REVENUE ACCOUNT AT TREASURY
The Assistant Minister, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of
Finance (Dr. Oburu): Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 21st April, 2011, the hon. Mbadi
requested for a Ministerial Statement concerning revenue accounts from the
Minister for Finance. The matter came up in the House on Tuesday, 10th May,
2011, where the Speaker ruled that the Minister for Finance should not conduct
any business in the House until the Ministerial Statement has been given to the
House. The very next day, Wednesday, 11th May, 2011, in Serena Hotel, there was
a Press conference called by the Mars Group, where hon. Mbadi participated and,
indeed, the exact same issue that the Minister was to make a report on was
subject matter of discussion and debate in the full public glare.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when we scrutinized the matter and inquired into the issues
that have been requested by hon. Mbadi, we conclude as follows:-

1. The accounts for the 2007/2008 Financial Year were queried by the Controller
and Auditor-General and he submitted the report to the House. The Public
Accounts Committee (PAC) duly investigated the matters raised for that financial
year and in December 2010, submitted to this House their Report containing its
recommendations.

2. The accounts for the Financial Year 2008/2009 were audited by the Controller
and Auditor-General and he has submitted his Report to this House. The PAC has
taken up the matter and is currently investigating those accounts. Mr. Speaker,
Sir, it is with this in mind that we are stating that making a Statement as
requested would be in violation of the Standing Orders and in breach of the
Parliamentary practice. Hon. Mbadi, would be invited to present his queries to
the PAC where all the technical officers of the various Ministries and agencies
can be invited to assist the PAC in investigating and reporting of the matters
raised. This will facilitate proper and thorough deliberations of the issues
raised, pursuant to established Parliamentary procedure and in accordance with
the Standing Orders.Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker: Any clarifications? Member for Gwassi!

Mr. Mbadi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am actually surprised by the Statement from the
Minister for Finance, where he is implying that this House cannot interrogate
issues with regard to the performance of the Executive, if such issues have
either been looked at by a Committee or the House or if it is in the process of
being looked at. I want to remind the Minister that this PAC Report has actually
been adopted by this House. If you look at the PAC Report vis-à-vis what I have
asked, there is no mention of specifically the issues I have raised. Since this
Minister has the information, I do not understand why he finds it difficult to
address the issues I asked.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issues I asked are as follows: -

One, I asked the Minister to tell us how many accounts, for example, in the year
2007/2008, were certified and why the others which were not certified, were not
certified. But, the issue which I raised that is so fundamental is that this
House was given some information with regard to actual revenue collection. That
information is completely different from what the Controller and Auditor-General
reported as the actual revenue collection that went into the Exchequer account.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am referring to 2007/2008 Financial Year. In the Exchequer
Account, the auditor reported on 4th November, 2008 that the Government
collected Kshs516 billion. The following year, that is June, 2009, this same
Assistant Minister came before this House and told the whole country that the
Government only collected Kshs410 billion; a difference of Kshs105 billion. I
simply wanted the Assistant Minister to clarify why the figures that are in the
Exchequer account are different from what we were given in this House.

I would also like him to tell this country whether the Ministry mislead
Parliament into approving figures that are not accurate to the tune of Kshs105
billion. It was that simple and there is no need to pass this to the Public
Accounts Committee (PAC). That issue was not addressed by the Public Accounts
Committee. I, as hon. Member of Parliament, should be giving authority to the
Executive to tax the people of Kenya and I believe it is within my mandate and
responsibility to question why the Government is giving us two contrasting
figures for the same Vote Head.
Mr. Speaker: Mr. Assistant Minister, do you have any reaction to that?

The Assistant Minister, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of
Finance (Dr. Oburu): Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not true that the issues which the
hon. Member has raised were not canvassed by the PAC. I can give you an extract
from the PAC just as an example on the issue which the hon. Member asked on the
taxes on international trade and transactions. The PAC deliberated on this
particular item and even made recommendations at the end. It states as
follows:-
“The Committee recommends that the Accounting Officer should always ensure
that audit queries are promptly responded to and all relevant documents availed
for audit as required. Officers who fail to perform the duties to the expected
standards and occasion unnecessary audit queries should be severely punished.
”What this means---

Mr. Ogindo: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker: Order! Let us hear the Assistant Minister first.

The Assistant Minister, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of
Finance (Dr. Oburu): Mr. Speaker, Sir, what this means is that actually the
officers produced those documents. The PAC was satisfied that the documents were
okay. The only thing is that they omitted to give them at the right time.
Therefore, the recommendation is that they should be giving this information at
the right time, so as to avoid unnecessary audit queries.

Mr. Ogindo: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in
order to avoid the question? This House has a right to interrogate the Ministry
of Finance. The Ministry of Finance is the custodian of revenue. The House is at
liberty to engage the Controller and Auditor-General. What the hon. Member for
Gwassi is asking is from the perspective of the Ministry of Finance. He says the
Ministry of Finance has given two conflicting figures to this House. What is the
explanation from the Ministry of Finance for this? Is he in order to avoid that
question?

The Assistant Minister, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of
Finance (Dr. Oburu): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not avoiding the question. The issue
is that there were discrepancies. What he is giving is a global figure. There
were items of expenditure where the auditor queried. This query is what gave
that total amount. On each of the items where there was a query---

Mr. Mbadi: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker: Order, Mr. Assistant Minister. I think that point of order may be
useful. That is why I am interrupting you at this point.

Mr. Mbadi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is appearing to me that the Assistant Minister
has not really understood the question that I raised. The Controller and
Auditor-General audited the Exchequer account where he had issues. That was done
on 4th November, 2008 and a report was issued.
The following year, the Ministry brought to this House - that figure was not
subject to the audit – figures that were materially different from what the
Controller and Auditor-General audited in the Exchequer Account. I said the
Exchequer Account which the Controller and Auditor-General audited and gave a
report on 4th November, 2008, had a figure of Kshs 516 billion as a global
figure. However, what was given to this House seven months later in June, 2009
is Kshs 410 billion. So, the Question I am asking is: Why should the Ministry
bring to this House the figure of Kshs 410 billion as opposed to what the
Controller and Auditor-General audited in November, 2008 of Kshs 516 billion? It
is that simple.

The Assistant Minister, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of
Finance (Dr. Oburu): Mr. Speaker, Sir, these discrepancies are before the PAC
right now. These are the subjects of the audit queries. So, this is the reason
why there were those differences in figures. Our officers are---

Dr. Kones: On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker: Order! Let us just hear the Assistant Minister first.

The Assistant Minister, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of
Finance (Dr. Oburu): Mr. Speaker, Sir, these are the audit queries before the
PAC; they are being discussed. Even the Budget Committee is also querying the
Ministry about these figures. So, I do not know really whether we should---

Dr. Kones: On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Let me speak as the
Chairman of the PAC. It is true that the subject matter raised by Mr. Mbadi is
an audit query in the 2008/2009 Financial Year. It is a matter that we are yet
to deal with because it is normally raised under the first chapter of the
accounts book. We normally look at it after scrutinizing and interrogating all
the Ministries.  As I said, this matter is before the PAC. However, I believe
the House also has the right to interrogate it at any time.

(Mr. Ogindo stood up in his place)

Mr. Speaker: Order, Member for Rangwe! I think I have heard enough on this
matter. I will reserve it and, therefore, defer it until I give direction next
week Thursday at 2.30 p.m. I will give directions as to how we should proceed.

Mr. Assistant Minister and the hon. Members who are concerned, please note.

Proceed, Mr. Bifwoli.

(Ministerial Statement deferred)


Full Mars Group Report is at www.marsgroupkenya.org

Mars Group Kenya
Watching Out For you